80+ column : Dec 13

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WRAP OF A WRAP

We had already decided long before kickoff that our wrap pod recording would be moved 24 hours later to Monday evening to allow for maximum time to prepare after the Sunday afternoon fixture, but given the way it worked out we were even more glad of the extra time.

Unfortunately RugbyKino was unable to join us as planned with him having a sore throat but thankfully Tom Coleman was able to come on from the bench to join Rich and as it turned out we had so much to harp on from this epic encounter that I had to completely alter how I present the pod.

Normally we record an extra “bonus clip” on an extra topic but our chat went on so long I decided to ditch it for this week, and when I went to edit I realised that there really wasnt anything worth cutting from what the lads had to so as you can see below the “Front Five” and “Final Thoughts” portions went to our YouTube channel, all to keep the actual wrap pod under an hour, but as ever I reckon it’s all well worth the listen.

If you didn’t catch the wrap pod itself, here’s a link to Spotify and we’re also on Apple and most major platforms.

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LEINSTER INJURY UPDATE

Mixed news from the report especially on the dreaded bottom line…we already knew Ross Byrne would be there but seeing Jamie Osborne’s name is also worrying…and also Cormac Foley being out for months is a blow for him and the team, he was progressing really well.

Also any squad would miss names like Conan and Furlong hopefully they are both minor issues while we will probably be without Harry Byrne for the visit of Sale.

On the plus side it’s great to see both Tommy O’Brien and Luke McGrath at least moving their way up the list.

On my selection for Saturday, while I am with what seems to be a majority of Leinster fans who want to see Frawley get a run at 10, I may have put him there in my selection but I still appreciate that if we feel we have to go for a 6/2 bench he may need to be on the bench.

We all of course wish James Lowe to only come back when he’s ready, would love to see him at least at 23 to ease him back in but then again Charlie Ngatai is having an amazing season himself so he makes my 23.

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LIONS – STILL A THING?

Had we done a bonus clip, it was to be all about the Lions, with the panel discussing both the announcement of the famous feline franchise playing the Pumas at the Aviva Stadium and also Gerry Thornley’s article questioning the viability of the whole concept what with concerns over player welfare.

My view is pretty simple – when the matches and tours are on, I love them as a fan of top level rugby.  Who wouldn’t love to see a combined team from four of the Six Nations take on the best of the Southern hemisphere in a test series, and having a test happen in Dublin is long overdue and would be on its own a great occasion for Irish rugby in particular.

However this obviously goes out the window when there’s even a suggestion of too much rugby on the calendar and there’s also my wish for there to be more opportunities for the “Tier 2” nations to play rugby.  And when a Lions squad assembles every four years, it automatically takes FIVE Tier 1 nations out of the equation when it comes to arranging matches and for me if it’s a case of “something has to give”, and I really think it is, then consigning the Lions tours to the history books wouldn’t be the worst thing for the sport.

I’ll look to bring it up in a future pod when I can to try and get some views from other Harpin panellists.

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CHAMPIONS CUP FORMAT

No, the headline doesn’t mean I intend to moan about the format, in fact if anything I’m sick of all that moaning.  Actually all I want to do here is point out how the knockout phase is organised for this year’s competition as I only learned it myself since last week’s 80+ column.

As you probably know there are four pools of six with two from each league in each pool and everyone plays four matches, avoiding only the team that comes from the same league.

The top four in each pool go forward to the last 16 and the seedings are very straightforward, the pool winners get 1-4 (ranked by pool performance), runnersup are 5-8, 3rd place teams 9-12 and finally 4th placed teams 13-16.   For the last 16 round, the pairings are set as follows…1v16, 2v15, 3v14, 4v13, 5v12, 6v11, 7v10, 8v9.

What this means is that it is very possible (1 in 4 chance to be precise) that teams from the same pool can meet each other in the last 16.  For example, not completely out of the question that Leinster play La Rochelle again!!!!

This isn’t a new thing by the way…in the format most people wish we could return to, with 6 pools of 4 producing 8 quarterfinallists, it has often happened that one of the two best runnersup faced a team they already faced in the pool phase.

I can’t say I’m a fan of this and would rather they kept the pools apart at least for that first knockout round, but I certainly wouldn’t dwell on it too much since that would itself be moaning!!!  I’ll stick to hoping Leinster get as high a seeding as we can possibly get.

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GUINNESS AS WOMEN’S 6N SPONSOR

On the surface this looks like good news, since the women’s game in particular will always need sponsorship, but I still have reservations.

It wasn’t so long ago that the league formerly known as the “Pro12/14” went a long time with having a sponsor before Guinness stepped in at virtually the 11th hour, and the same thing happened to the men’s Six Nations as the famous Irish stout was only announced to be offering its name to the 2019 tournament in December of 2018.  Pretty sure these deals are ideally done and dusted much longer in advance of the competitions kicking off.

This leads me to think that Guinness may well be something of a “sponsor of last resort” for rugby and if so this could mean that it may not be as lucrative for the competition as it could be.  I really, really hope I’m wrong but it does seem to make sense that a deal negotiated with a different company would bear more fruit.

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ANOTHER MAJOR LEAGUE RUGBY FOLDS 

Absolutely devastating news from the USA, with Toronto Arrows already pulling out of Major League Rugby for 2024, now even New York can’t hold down a team with the Ironworkers also folding.  With the Miami Sharks joining this season, that leaves them with just ten for this season and surely there must be more teams struggling as well.

It’s very important for the sport that they get a foothold in the US, but it really looks like trying to model their product on the MLS isn’t the way to go, which is ironic because the reason it took soccer so long to take off over there was that they originally modelled themselves too much on the “established” American sports.  

Looks like rugby there is going to have to find its own way forward.

UPDATE – since publishing I have learned that the league plans to expand into Mexico for 2025. Sounds like the plans aren’t finalised so I guess they figured they needed to get this news out there asap to push back on all the Toronto/NY negativity. Interesting move with Mexico hardly a rugby hotbed but we’ll see how it pans out.

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EDDIE JONES

I really, really, REALLY don’t want to devote too many words to this guy, and Paul Williams sums up my feeling pretty well in the tweet below.  But one thing I will say is that as much as I say in the previous segment how much I want the game to flourish in the USA, the same goes for Japan.  We really need a strong foothold in both markets.  Sadly now I can’t help but wish for EJ to be a flop out there which if it were to happen would probably set the game back further.

Eddie Jones is officially the new coach of Japan.

Signed a 4 year deal.

He's probably looking for a new job already.

— Paul Williams (@thepaulwilliams) December 13, 2023

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URC IRISH SHIELD UPDATE

Now for the “Update” portion of the column and while there were obviously no URC games to update this table I might as well leave it here anyway.

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“SVNS” UPDATE

For the second week in a row I’m simply going to paste in my copy from the pod (actually it’s in the first YouTube clip above) as it pretty much says all I have to say on the sevens…

I’ll start with the women – because while a seventh place finish is one down from the previous weekend in Dubai, there were still some fine performances, arguably the best of which was one they lost against Australia, as a brace of Bebhinn Parsons tries kept the eventual tournament winners honest and 14-24 was a very respectable result all things considered.  They also ended the competition on a high defeating Great Britain avenging an earlier defeat in the pool stages to finish 7th which is also where they sit in the overall standings after two rounds.

Meanwhile the men had a better time of it – any Irish rugby team defeating New Zealand in a quarterfinal would make headlines but this was also not only our first ever win over them in 7s but also the first time they had lost at this stage of the competition since 2015.  And it’s not like it was a fluke, not only was it a comprehensive 36-21 victory that included a Terry Kennedy hat-trick, but it came after an equally impressive win over the hosts at the end of Day 1, with the Irish men often deploying absolutely suffocating defensive sets that made it look like we had 15 out there not 7.  

However those levels of physicality can take their toll and having reached the final four we finally came unstuck against eventual tournament winners Argentina in the semifinals and also against Fiji in the playoff which meant a fourth place finish that keeps us in 5th on the series table.

I said last week both squads can definitely get higher finishes and I still believe this to be the case.  The series now moves on to Perth for a 3-day event from January 26th to 28th, make a note in your diaries and try to catch as much of the action as you can it is generally streamed live for free on rugbypass.tv

CAPE TOWN 7s

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AIL UPDATE 

“Match conceded by Wicklow due to injuries” is not a sentence we want to see in any level of senior rugby in 2023, especially when the top league in the country has only 9 teams so for any to be unable to put a matchday squad together it shows the game is still in major trouble.

And going on history, the 28-0 scoreline which was awarded to league leaders UL Bohs was something of a blessing for Wicklow – I have to admit I winced before looking at the scoreline and would not have blinked if it was in triple figures.  That’s in no way an indictment of the rugby club itself by the way, rather the continued poor investment in the club game in general.

The league may have nine clubs officially, but actually there are only four with any real chance of winning it with three of them based in Dublin and surely there must be more talent available across the island that we can get playing the sport on a regular basis.

The league now takes a break until February 10, while in the meantime there will be the new “Celtic Challenge” competition including two new Irish franchises, the Wolfhounds and the Clovers who will play each other in Round 1 on December 29.

Meanwhile on the men’s side of things, Clontarf earned a win away to Lansdowne in round 8 to stay top while Cork Con stayed in touch by defeating UCD.  Champions Terenure continued their recent form by sneaking into the top 4 thanks to a 29-17 win over City of Armagh, who have an Ulster derby to look forward to next weekend as they host Ballynahinch, although the tie of the round would seem to be the all Munster affair when Young Munsters host Cork Con. 

#SupportYourLocalClub

WOMEN’S AIL

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MEN’S AIL

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CHALLENGE CUP UPDATE

All Irish provinces may be in the main competition but the Challenge Cup is still worth updating here, partly because it’s possible a province or two may end up dropping down into its knockout stage, but also as there are some interesting entrants in this years pool stage, not least of which is Black Lion from Georgia.

It wasn’t the worst debut for them either as although they lost to Premiership side Gloucester, it was only by a respectable 10-15 result to give them their first match point in European rugby.  Elsewhere there were wins for the Sharks and Castres, two of the sides who may be fancied to be there or thereabouts in the latter stages, and also for the Dragons, who surely won’t care how little Oyonnax put into their fixture as they needed any kind of win they could get!

The South African derby between Cheetahs and Sharks seems to be the pick of round 2, although Black Lion will fancy having a go at the Scarlets given how things went the last team a Georgian side played in Wales.

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HARPIN PREDICTION LEAGUE

Yeah I know this league is for the URC only and there were no matches last weekend but hey, I’m top of the league so Imma gonna keep posting the standings every chance I get!!!

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NEXT BATCH OF HARPIN’

Premiership leaders Sale Sharks come to the RDS on Saturday evening, we’ll have a preview with Keego on Friday while Tom Coleman and RugbyKino are slated to help with the wrap which will be back in its Sunday evening recording slot.  Be sure to keep in touch with all our social media channels and offer your own thoughts where you can.

And as ever, be sure to enjoy your rugby wherever you are.  JLP

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